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在綿亙?nèi)f里的古絲綢之路上，古都長(zhǎng)安曾是耀眼奪目的世界經(jīng)濟(jì)、文化中心；而當(dāng)代西安是“一帶一路”國(guó)家戰(zhàn)略下引領(lǐng)中西部開放發(fā)展的創(chuàng)新引擎。“絲路科學(xué)城”是西安高新區(qū)于2021年啟動(dòng)建設(shè)的國(guó)際化科學(xué)城，也是引領(lǐng)西安建設(shè)“雙中心”（綜合性國(guó)家科學(xué)中心和區(qū)域科創(chuàng)中心）的核心支點(diǎn)。
While the ancient capital of Chang'an was once an international economic and cultural center on the Silk Road stretching over Asia and Europe, contemporary Xi'an is an innovation engine leading the development of central and western China, under the national initiative of "One Belt, One Road". "The Science City of the Silk Road" is an international science hub initiated in 2021 by the Xi'an Hi-Tech Zone, and also Xi’an’s pivoting point to build a "Dual Center" (a “comprehensive national science center” and a “regional technological innovation center”).
如何平衡西安深厚的歷史文化積淀與高新科技所驅(qū)動(dòng)的“硬核”發(fā)展？景觀設(shè)計(jì)在新城發(fā)展過程中將扮演怎樣的角色？筑格對(duì)話AECOM公司景觀部門負(fù)責(zé)人李程（Lee Parks），帶您走進(jìn)景觀建筑師的獨(dú)特視角。
In the process of urbanization, how to balance the historical and cultural heritage of Xi'an with the economic development driven by high-tech? What is the role of landscape in the process of urban development? ArchiDogs were honored to interview Mr. Lee Parks, the Head of Landscape at AECOM, sharing the unique perspective of a landscape architect.
歷史文化建設(shè)從來(lái)不是一朝一夕的成果，從大明宮到小雁塔，西安的十幾年間，在城市公共空間中做出了策略性的改變。如何“重現(xiàn)歷史”、將歷史融入現(xiàn)代化公共空間，這不僅是建筑師的命題，更是景觀設(shè)計(jì)師對(duì)細(xì)節(jié)和空間體驗(yàn)的追求。
Historical and cultural construction is never the result of a single day. Xi 'an has made strategic changes in the urban public space in the past decade from Daming Palace to the Small Wild Goose Pagoda. How to "reproduce history" and integrate history into modern public space is not only the proposition of architects but also the pursuit of details and spatial experience of landscape architects.
您在2008年參與了大明宮國(guó)家遺址公園的前期規(guī)劃，2021年又主持設(shè)計(jì)了西安小雁塔歷史文化片區(qū)的綜合改造。在這十幾年間，您如何看待西安在歷史文化建設(shè)方面的有哪些策略性的改變？
You have participated in the pre-planning of Xi’an Daming Palace National Relic Park in 2008, as well as the renovation of the Small Wild Goose Pagoda district in 2021. What is your opinion on Xi’an’s strategic changes over the past decade?
2008年，在大明宮國(guó)家遺址公園項(xiàng)目的國(guó)際競(jìng)標(biāo)之前，我參與了它的前期規(guī)劃，研究如何在呼應(yīng)歷史與考古發(fā)現(xiàn)的同時(shí)，規(guī)劃一個(gè)更加生態(tài)友好的遺址公園，但我沒有參與后續(xù)階段的規(guī)劃與設(shè)計(jì)。最終建成的遺址公園尺度非常壯觀，我認(rèn)為這和當(dāng)時(shí)大家十分強(qiáng)調(diào)唐代長(zhǎng)安的宏偉氣勢(shì)有關(guān)，設(shè)計(jì)者需要體現(xiàn)出大明宮的宏大空間，以彰顯長(zhǎng)安的歷史地位。
In 2008, I was involved in the pre-planning of Daming Palace which was a study before an international competition was held. The point of that study was to try and get a much greener national relics park and responsive to archaeology and history, but the end result of that park, which I wasn't involved in, is very grand in terms of design. I think at that time, there was a lot of emphasis on the magnificence of the ancient capital and creating an enormous space for celebrating history.
十幾年之后的今天，小雁塔片區(qū)更新項(xiàng)目所關(guān)注的重點(diǎn)則有所變化。我們團(tuán)隊(duì)的設(shè)計(jì)以人為本，對(duì)社區(qū)更為友好，同時(shí)更為環(huán)保、具有可持續(xù)性。作為設(shè)計(jì)師，我很歡迎這樣的變化，它使設(shè)計(jì)師能夠?yàn)橛慰鸵约爱?dāng)?shù)鼐用駝?chuàng)造更具普惠性的公共空間。
After a decade, working on the Small Wild Goose Pagoda, the emphasis has been changed, to a more human-oriented, community-friendly, greener, and more sustainable design. It was a really nice and welcome change. And, it enabled us as designers to really create a place for tourists and local residents in the community to make it much more inclusive.
小雁塔歷史文化片區(qū)綜合改造項(xiàng)目 西苑鳥瞰 ?丘文建筑攝影-邱日培
小雁塔歷史文化片區(qū)綜合改造項(xiàng)目 軸線視角 ?丘文建筑攝影-邱日培
在小雁塔片區(qū)項(xiàng)目中，可以看到很多有趣的細(xì)節(jié)，就像給大家創(chuàng)造了公園中尋寶的體驗(yàn)，你們?nèi)绾未蛟爝@樣的空間？
We've seen lots of fine details in the Small Wild Goose Pagoda project. Could you please tell us more about these details? It’s kind of like treasure-hunting in the landscape.
小雁塔是唐代古跡，我們的部分創(chuàng)作靈感也來(lái)源于西安博物院所展出的一些唐代古物。在設(shè)計(jì)過程中，我們希望用當(dāng)代的方式表現(xiàn)這些傳統(tǒng)的形式，將傳統(tǒng)融入景觀地面鋪裝、公園設(shè)施的一些細(xì)節(jié)中，這樣所呈現(xiàn)的傳統(tǒng)敘事就不會(huì)太直白。
I was very inspired by the pagoda itself and some of the artefacts in the Xi'an museum which includes relics from the Tang Dynasty. We wanted to be able to present those in a more contemporary way, integrating those into some of the subtle details whether that's paving or furniture to tell the story, but not too strong.
“雁歸里坊”廣場(chǎng)鋪裝印刻著唐代108坊與保留的古車轍印的歷史記憶。?丘文建筑攝影-邱日培
保留的列植皂莢，增強(qiáng)了歷史片區(qū)的渾厚氣勢(shì)，在主要的通行廊道處進(jìn)行疏伐，打開視線。設(shè)計(jì)創(chuàng)新優(yōu)化了大樹支撐結(jié)構(gòu)，使廣場(chǎng)空間更安全，活動(dòng)空間范圍更大。?丘文建筑攝影-邱日培
于景觀細(xì)節(jié)感知文脈，將小雁塔密檐式建筑語(yǔ)言、唐三彩等文化特色融入空間細(xì)節(jié)。?丘文建筑攝影-邱日培
絲路科學(xué)城是西安高新區(qū)于2021年啟動(dòng)建設(shè)的新區(qū)域，目前已初具規(guī)模。科學(xué)城中的高新科技產(chǎn)業(yè)在促進(jìn)經(jīng)濟(jì)發(fā)展的同時(shí)，也可以被運(yùn)用于歷史文化保護(hù)與生態(tài)環(huán)境修復(fù)。
"The Science City of the Silk Road" was first established in the Xi'an Hi-Tech Zone in 2021, and it is now taking shape. While promoting economic growth, high-tech industries in this smart city can also benefit historical preservation as well as the environment.
在當(dāng)前這個(gè)古今交匯的時(shí)空語(yǔ)境下，從建筑或城市的角度出發(fā)，如何平衡歷史遺產(chǎn)保護(hù)與科技發(fā)展？
Currently, in establishing the High-Tech Zone, Xi’an is pursuing development in terms of high-tech and information digitalization under the “One Belt One Road” policy. In the meantime, Xi’an’s profound historical identity is very much cherished by the public. In your opinion, how do we balance the historical context and technological development?
作為一個(gè)景觀建筑師，我認(rèn)為，科技與歷史保護(hù)應(yīng)該是協(xié)調(diào)一致的，兩者之間不應(yīng)有沖突。值得我們深思的是如何妥善運(yùn)用技術(shù)，保證其產(chǎn)生的結(jié)果是積極的。對(duì)設(shè)計(jì)師來(lái)說(shuō)，使用各種技術(shù)來(lái)表達(dá)設(shè)計(jì)意圖、提升設(shè)計(jì)效率；對(duì)于使用空間的居民及消費(fèi)者來(lái)說(shuō)，設(shè)計(jì)師應(yīng)該保證科技被運(yùn)用于遺產(chǎn)保護(hù)，及提升社會(huì)公平與包容性等方面。
As a landscape architect, obviously, technology and historic conservation should be aligned. There shouldn't be a conflict between these two. The secret for us is how to leverage technology for a positive outcome. Designers use technology to convey our design intent and use that technology to improve the efficiency of design. But then the technology for the residents, consumers and people who use the spaces we create, should be used in a way that really does help protect relics and promote social equity and inclusion.
小雁塔歷史文化片區(qū)綜合改造項(xiàng)目 ?AECOM
在您看來(lái)，以科技發(fā)展為導(dǎo)向的高新區(qū)，在發(fā)展中所需要的核心元素是什么？
In your opinion, what's the key element that a technology-oriented high-tech district needs in its development?
我認(rèn)為，城市發(fā)展中需要運(yùn)用科技造福社會(huì)與環(huán)境，用科技應(yīng)對(duì)氣候變化、生物多樣性喪失等當(dāng)下面臨的嚴(yán)峻挑戰(zhàn)。信息數(shù)字技術(shù)的創(chuàng)新利用，將幫助我們更好地應(yīng)對(duì)氣候變化危機(jī)，最終為居民、社區(qū)甚至野生動(dòng)植物帶來(lái)福祉。
I think technology should be used in ways to benefit society, to benefit the environment, to tackle issues like climate change or biodiversity loss. What we need to do is use data and information in a way that enables us to do better for people, for communities and for wildlife, and to tackle the big issues of our day which are climate-change related.
小雁塔片區(qū)海綿設(shè)施布局 ?AECOM&西安小雁塔景區(qū)運(yùn)營(yíng)管理有限公司
小雁塔片區(qū)生態(tài)策略 ?AECOM
西安高新區(qū)絲路科學(xué)城的建設(shè)正如火如荼地展開，作為設(shè)計(jì)師如果有機(jī)會(huì)參與到高新區(qū)的城市建設(shè)中，您會(huì)有怎樣的建議？
The High-Tech Zone is now taking shape. If you had a chance to participate in its urban development, what would you like to do? Do you have any suggestions?
我想到了“一帶一路”與科技發(fā)展的關(guān)系。近年來(lái)，中國(guó)在植樹造林方面付出了很大的努力。如果有可能的話，高新區(qū)可以建一座處理環(huán)境數(shù)據(jù)的研究中心，搜集高新區(qū)的生態(tài)綠化數(shù)據(jù)，用數(shù)字科技搜集和管理“一帶一路”沿線重新造林與生態(tài)恢復(fù)的情況。這樣，西安可以作為絲綢之路生態(tài)走廊的起點(diǎn)，在修復(fù)地球環(huán)境、維護(hù)生態(tài)多樣性、應(yīng)對(duì)氣候變化等方面樹立表率。
I was thinking about the idea of the Silk Road and technology. I know that over recent years, there has been a lot of effort to increase afforestation. I think that the science and technology base can have a research center or science-base where data is collected, to look at this ecological greening from the high-tech district along the Silk Road, to imagine reforestation, habitat restoration, and to monitor all of that through digital technology. So this should be the start of a Silk Road Ecological Corridor restoring the planet, thinking about biodiversity gain, and tackling climate change.
小雁塔歷史文化片區(qū)綜合改造項(xiàng)目 ?丘文建筑攝影-邱日培
在城市建設(shè)中，景觀設(shè)計(jì)對(duì)優(yōu)質(zhì)公共空間的創(chuàng)造起到重要作用。“景觀(landscape)”這一概念，超越街區(qū)以及城市的尺度，甚至能打破國(guó)界。在應(yīng)對(duì)氣候變化和生物多樣性危機(jī)這樣的全球議題時(shí)，也起到不容忽視的作用。
In urban development, landscape architecture plays an important role in creating good public space. The idea of landscape goes beyond the scale of an urban neighborhood or a city, and even extends beyond the limit of national boundaries. Its role in addressing global issues such as climate change and the biodiversity crisis cannot be ignored.
科技發(fā)展日新月異，近年來(lái)數(shù)字虛擬、人工智能等高新科技如雨后春筍般涌進(jìn)大眾市場(chǎng)，您認(rèn)為建筑設(shè)計(jì)、城市規(guī)劃或景觀設(shè)計(jì)應(yīng)該如何與新技術(shù)結(jié)合？或者您曾在哪個(gè)項(xiàng)目中嘗試結(jié)合嗎？
The technological revolution has brought about new concepts like VR and AIGC, which have become mainstream in recent years. How do we integrate these cutting-edge technologies into architecture, urban planning, or landscape architecture? Have you tried any of these technologies in your previous projects?
AI 圖像生成和可視化技術(shù)的發(fā)展正給市場(chǎng)帶來(lái)飛速變革，因此不少建筑師和設(shè)計(jì)師都開始為未來(lái)的工作感到擔(dān)憂，但我認(rèn)為技術(shù)進(jìn)步將幫助促進(jìn)設(shè)計(jì)師的想象力和創(chuàng)造力。新技術(shù)將在初始的概念設(shè)計(jì)階段發(fā)揮很大作用；同樣的，VR（虛擬現(xiàn)實(shí)）和數(shù)字建模技術(shù)在與客戶溝通以及施工過程中都很有幫助，可以將設(shè)計(jì)的所有細(xì)節(jié)可視化，大大提升設(shè)計(jì)效率。
The AI imagery and visualization is rapidly changing in the market, and many architects and designers worry about their jobs in the future. However, technology is there to really help imagination, creativity, and innovation. It plays a very important role in the beginning concept stage. Then, when we use things like VR and digital models of our projects, we can help clients understand the designs we're creating, and visualize all of the details to help with construction.
AECOM在上海設(shè)計(jì)的楊浦大創(chuàng)智數(shù)字公園（KIC 481）是楊浦區(qū)首批數(shù)字公園之一，設(shè)計(jì)突破了傳統(tǒng)景觀設(shè)計(jì)的方式，包含了對(duì)公共空間資產(chǎn)化和科技賦能的探索，借助虛擬數(shù)字技術(shù)的力量，通過“線上+線下”聯(lián)動(dòng)的數(shù)字公園營(yíng)造新模式，更好地為城市居民服務(wù)。我們的實(shí)踐正處于數(shù)字化轉(zhuǎn)型階段。
AECOM has a project in Shanghai in the Greater Knowledge Innovation Community (GKIC). It’s one of the Yangpu district’s first digital parks and will enable school children to engage in education, which would involve technology companies to install technology platforms for forums and engagement. We are also involved in the digital transformation of our practice.
上海KIC 481數(shù)字城市 ?AECOM
您曾在SRC街景研究中心的論壇中提到，街區(qū)的意義遠(yuǎn)在街區(qū)之外。現(xiàn)在的城市或景觀設(shè)計(jì)如何平衡經(jīng)濟(jì)、環(huán)境、文脈與社會(huì)的需求？
At the Conference of Streetscape Research Center, you stated that the significance of street blocks goes beyond the blocks. In this era, overloaded with digital information and surrounded by highly modernized urban space, how can urban or landscape design balance economic, environmental, social, and cultural needs？
這是一個(gè)很大的議題。在全球范圍內(nèi)，已經(jīng)有很多關(guān)于環(huán)境、社會(huì)、治理（Environmental, Social, Governance, 簡(jiǎn)稱ESG）的討論，該議題關(guān)注長(zhǎng)期可持續(xù)發(fā)展與韌性。我之前所提出的關(guān)于街景的觀點(diǎn)是指我們不能僅僅在規(guī)劃紅線中考量一個(gè)項(xiàng)目，而是要考慮到該項(xiàng)目對(duì)周邊社區(qū)的影響，以及場(chǎng)地與周邊生態(tài)空間的連接。在增加優(yōu)質(zhì)公共空間與社區(qū)資源的連通性、可達(dá)性方面，景觀設(shè)計(jì)起到很重要的作用。
This is a very big topic. From a global perspective, there's a lot of talk about environmental, social and governance strategies, or ESG. ESG should also think about resiliency，the long-term sustainable development. In the talk I did for the Streetscape Research Center, the idea of going beyond the block was that we don't look at a project from a red line. We look at how it impacts surrounding communities or connects to several surrounding green spaces. So, landscape architecture plays a really important role extending the connectivity and the access to good public space and community resources.
小雁塔片區(qū)改造后的城市界面 ?丘文建筑攝影-邱日培
不知您是否感覺到，在中國(guó)的業(yè)界，建筑設(shè)計(jì)似乎比景觀設(shè)計(jì)更重要，景觀設(shè)計(jì)似乎是為建筑設(shè)計(jì)服務(wù)的。但在其它一些國(guó)家，建筑、景觀等設(shè)計(jì)師是通力合作的。（在中國(guó)的市場(chǎng)）需要倡導(dǎo)“景觀設(shè)計(jì)先行”嗎？
I just thought of another question. In China, it seems that architecture is more important than landscape, but I know that in other countries, landscape architects and architects cooperate together. Do you think landscape should get first and then invite architects into the landscape?
我所在的AECOM公司為倫敦奧運(yùn)會(huì)所做的總體規(guī)劃就是由景觀設(shè)計(jì)師所推動(dòng)的。景觀能夠、且應(yīng)當(dāng)涵蓋我們所創(chuàng)造的社區(qū)，以及我們所居住的城市。就我個(gè)人而言，景觀是沒有邊界的，甚至超越了國(guó)界。當(dāng)你坐在飛機(jī)上俯瞰大地的時(shí)候，你會(huì)發(fā)現(xiàn)我們的城市就坐落在地景（landscape）之中。
AECOM was responsible for the London Olympic Master plan, and it was driven by a landscape architect. Landscape can and should really encompass the communities we create, the cities that we live in. For me, landscape has no borders. It goes beyond our country and our national border. When you're in an airplane, our cities are sat within landscapes.
2012倫敦奧運(yùn)會(huì) ?AECOM
今天，當(dāng)我們面對(duì)諸多全球性挑戰(zhàn)，景觀設(shè)計(jì)在應(yīng)對(duì)氣候變化和生物多樣性危機(jī)等方面正發(fā)揮著極其重要的作用，它在我們的城市發(fā)展中扮演很重要的角色。
I think landscape is incredibly important, and in today's society with big issues that we face globally, particularly in terms of climate change and biodiversity loss, landscape architecture plays a very important role in our city development.
在科技時(shí)代的城市發(fā)展中，景觀的力量不容小覷：通過營(yíng)造更具包容性、可持續(xù)性的城市公共空間，為歷史文化街區(qū)增添活力。在更宏觀的層面，景觀連接起城市街區(qū)與周邊生態(tài)空間，將城市與自然相連，甚至跨越國(guó)界。西安，這座“一帶一路”開放之都，不僅可以通往歷史文化絲路、科技創(chuàng)新發(fā)展絲路，也可以將高新科技與景觀設(shè)計(jì)結(jié)合，打造生態(tài)環(huán)境保護(hù)的綠色絲路走廊。
For urban development in this technological age, the power of landscape cannot be underestimated. It can revitalize historical heritage by creating a more inclusive and sustainable public space. At a macro level, landscape connects communities to the surrounding green space, and cities to the greater nature. This is a connectivity which may even extend beyond national borders. Xi’an, as an open metropolis of the Belt and Road Initiative, can not only lead to a Silk Road of history and culture, of technological development and innovation, but also a green Silk-Road- corridor of environmental protection, by integrating landscape with high-tech development.
發(fā)文編輯｜Aaron
審核編輯 | Miranda
采訪/撰寫 | Ming、Zhenyu、Jiqing / Yutong
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